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« May the New Year Bring Enlightenment | Main | Energy Costs and the Economy »

January 06, 2011

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GaryA

Very informative george altough it took ame a few days to digest!
On your section on Complexity you mention AI and I'm curious what you think of Roger Penroses ideas about 'Quantum consciousness and the possiblility that there is an essentially non-algorithmic element to human thought and human consciousness?
This non-algorithmic element to human thought is, Penrose claims, due to quantum effects in the brain, which are the source of our feelings of self-awareness, our consciousness, and our capacity for leaps of inspiration.
He also states that human mimicing consciousness in computers AI will never be achieved.

It seems plausible enough to me and the pace slow progress of work on AI suggests he may be on to something?

George Mobus

Hi GaryA,

I've read Penrose's explanation and find it a bit too hand wavey. I do agree that consciousness is non-algorithmic but that really isn't saying a whole lot. Most processes in the real world are stochastic and heuristic (non-computable). They can, however be modeled to one degree or another as long as you inject the right kind of noise into the 'algorithms'.

The slow pace of AI I attribute to the early and continuing commitment to logic-based and algorithmic approaches. Even the so-called heuristic-based (expert systems) and experience-based (case-based reasoning) are fundamentally still just computer programs trying to explicitly compute a solution.

Neural networks and fuzzy logic have been useful in some robotic/control applications. ANNs work in pattern recognition problems quite well (e.g. the DARPA autonomous vehicle program). But the way ANNs are typically implemented they are not capable of learning on-line, real-time in a non-stationary environment. Bayesian based NNs do a little better but are still not able to learn rapidly.

Real biological neurons don't work the same way that these computationally-inspired (and implemented) systems do. If you follow the link to my paper, or check out some of my other work on my attempt to model more closely the biological neuron and synapses you will see an alternative approach. In artificial brains based on these models, the only thing being computed is the analog synaptic efficacy in multiple time domains. Lots of noise is injected to keep the stochastic flavor of real neurons. The intelligence is in the bottom up architecture of the whole system (as I tried to cover in the above).

I reached a point where I realized that further progress in this method would need a large scale simulated evolutionary environment for my 'agents', which, at the time, was beyond the capabilities of even the largest/fastest supercomputer. Today, with the parallel capabilities of the Internet, it might be feasible. Still a big project. Since I'm now trying to understand humanity's predicament I don't really have the time to devote to trying to prove this!

George

George Mobus

This is actually a comment sent to me by Phil Henshaw, a frequent commentator here and a blogger at synapse9.com. He reported having problems with the Typepad editor preventing his submission. If anyone else is having similar problems let me know.
------------------------------
George, As so often you do a simply marvelous job of making sense of a rather
complex subject. You also point out an important cognitive gap in your
conclusion, saying: "Real biological neurons don't work the same way that these
computationally-inspired (and implemented) systems do...". There's a rather
curious feature I noticed about that gap some time ago.

What I noticed, from air currents actually, is that they also don?t really work
the way their modeling equations do. Computational systems are all modeled
around "push" sequences (repulsions) and both thermal convection and biological
systems also have uniquely different sorts of organization that develops around
"pull" sequences (attractions). You get quite different kinds of
organizational effects from pushing and pulling on things, like from pushing and
pulling on air. One difference there is between jets of air flow versus
turbulence, sometimes characterized as the difference between pushing or pulling
on a rope.

Processes at energy gradients seem to be full of differences in organization
caused by that, and mathematical models that fail to emulate it. In systems
with many parts push relations work with global rules, but opportunistic
behaviors of energetic parts need local developmental processes to animate them
as nature does, and equations can?t be written for.

When you learn to spot the difference in organizational form, you find both in
net energy systems of all sorts. For animal populations the organization that
comes from the animation of the individuals is expressed in "foraging and
dodging". That active learning activity is what actively connects animals to
the details of their environments. You see organization arising from both the
appetites of the individuals (voluntary pull of attraction) as well as from
external forces controlling them (involuntary push of repulsion).

It's a wonderful boundary to explore, of important processes and relationships,
aided by the miss-match between the form of equations and the form of life. One
can take it negatively, as a "fly in the ointment" for representing everything
as a mechanism. One can also see it as a viewing platform for beginning
another level of exploration, of an even more richly complex natural world.

The way I use ?push models? to help me study "pull organized" things is first to
find complex things nature is doing rather simply somehow, as if following a
conventional model. That provides a reliable handle for locating and finding
the boundaries of locally animated (thought not always animate) system process.

You can then find how combinations of both kinds of order work together. It
also prompts relevant questions about the limits of such kinds of systems and
their connections. So it?s a way to use conventional models, as tools for
investigating where swarms of individual choices about their environments are
what really dominate. It seems to work.

Phil Henshaw

Belstaff Chaquetas Venta

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