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« Is Obama passing the acid test? | Main | Stimulus package? Stimulate this! »

August 16, 2009

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Lutrinae

I don't know what the original emailer meant, but wikipedia seems to have a different definition of cynicism:
"...a new understanding...of cynicism to mean an attitude of jaded negativity, and a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of other people. Modern cynicism, as a product of mass society, is a distrust toward professed ethical and social values, especially when there are high expectations concerning society, institutions and authorities which are unfulfilled. Cynicism can manifest itself as a result of frustration, disillusionment, and distrust perceived as due to organizations, authorities and other aspects of society, and thus is roughly equivalent to a substantive form of the English word "jaded"."

I would say you meet this definition better, although by the definition cynicism may not be bad thing. Also, it is my experience people use "cynical" this way more often, and bitterness never comes into play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism

I have some comments on china, but I'll get to that later.

GaryA

I for one, have always been proud to be a cynic (in the original meaning of the word)
Quote:
'Navia demonstrates how Diogenes fearlessly opposed every injustice and corruption of his time, surviving to create many cornerstones of modern thought. Stripped of its modern connotation (as it should be) "cynicism" is revealed as one of the most progressive and enlightened philosophical movements in history. He should be living at this hour.'

http://www.amazon.com/Diogenes-Cynic-War-Against-World/dp/1591023203

George Mobus

Hold on Lutrinae! From the very beginning I have tried to express the fact that I DON't hold out high expectations, ala:
"...is a distrust toward professed ethical and social values, especially when there are high expectations concerning society, institutions and authorities which are unfulfilled."

My whole point about the acid test is that if Obama fails, it will prove my main point, that we simply don't have leaders wise enough to get the job done.

I will grant I am frustrated, but mostly from living on a planet where evolution produced a sub-optimal intelligent life form!!!!

I had hoped that my 'tirades' sounded more satirical than cynical (in the modern sense). Guess I will need to work on my style!

I will eagerly await your comments on China. Big puzzle and big enigma to me.

George

George Mobus

GaryA,

I guess I just think Homo sapiens is too foolish to warrant cynicism in the Greek philosophical style. The existence of an injustice (in a larger evolutionary sense) would imply a capability behind the intentional mind that produced it to actually understand the consequences of their actions, and still take them. Frankly I've come to believe that the Dick Cheney's of this world really just don't understand the big picture. They are like sapient morons and can't actually be held accountable for their seeming transgressions (although I admit I would still like to see him and his ilk hang by their anatomical parts which you can imagine!) You would hope intelligence would be enough. That they could reason through their motives and decisions and then come to better conclusions. But, as I have argued all along, intelligence is not enough. It takes sapience.

But I hear your sentiment. I guess, in a sense, I share it and that is why I bother to keep writing!

George

Scott N.

Hello George,

In the opposite direction of cynic is naivety. Some may call this optimism. Given the opportunity, I would like to prove that the best essay of an average individual is better than the average essay of the best op-ed journalist. Provided with a higher potential of democratic visibility, I believe an individual will utilize a process of refinement and coaching to express their point of view in an intelligent and respectful manner.

George, I would suggest your cynicism is directed at the masses, while optimistic for an unforeseen intellectual authority. The 180 degree point of view would be optimistic in the masses, while cynical against any type of authoritative rule.

Just my naive point of view.

George Mobus

Scott,

As I tried to indicate to Lutrinae, above, my sentiments aren't ones of cynicism but of disappointment born of what I hope is a realistic insight into human nature. A cynic believes something good is possible but that the motives, or circumstances behind the "others" actions thwart the good. I have no such belief, at least not with respect to the current species of human on average. I simply think that our species is incompetent, not evil.

You seem to hold out that the average human is capable of developing reasoned arguments with the right framework and tools. Taken just a bit further this suggests that the average person is, in some sense, perfectible with the brain given to our species. I certainly do believe that the average human could be better on many counts given the appropriate educational and cultural milieu. But my investigations into the capabilities of the average brain for displaying a sufficiently high level of sapience suggests that what might be possible with the average person under the right conditions is still not sufficient to deal with the difficult problems we face.

Put another way, I argue that if our species actually had a sufficient level of sapience to begin with (native capacity), then reasoned arguments would not require the coaching and tools you imply.

Having said that, you are right that I am doubtful (not cynical) about the masses. Not sure what you mean about an "unseen intellectual authority". I certainly have never written about such an entity (assuming the standard lexical semantics of the words you used). What I have suggested is that because the genetic basis of capacities and traits are distributed in some form of Gaussian-like curve in the population, and this goes for sapience as well, then there are a few people in the right tail (high levels of sapience) of that curve already in our population. I see no signs that any of them have acquired any kind of authority (or put the other way round, none of our leaders appear to have high sapience!), with the possible exception of someone like Mandela.

What you are expressing seems to be a belief in the 'wisdom of the crowd' sentiment, and that if unleashed properly that wisdom would trump any authority. I actually share your sentiment about being cynical against authority except that I am insisting that my position is simply one of not expecting any wisdom, rather than deeply believing they have evil intent.

Nevertheless, I want to encourage you to pursue your research. I hope you know that I would be actually quite happy if you could demonstrate your thesis and put my (what seems to some as cynicism) doubts to rest. My thesis counts as a scientific hypothesis precisely because it could be proved wrong if you were to succeed in demonstrating your ideas working. So I do wish you well. I've said to friends that there are two things that will stop my writing on this blog: 1) humans start demonstrating wise choices en masse or 2) my worst-case scenarios come to pass and the Internet goes away! There is, of course a 3rd option but lets not speak of it! I assure you I'd prefer 1.

George

Scott N.

George,

Thank you for the encouraging words, coach.

I found "Wisdom of the Crowd" by James Surowiecki interesting, but a bit impersonal. I like to think of the DGG idea as crowd sourcing with a microscope's ability to focus to the personal point of view.

Coaching is valuable to the argument development process. I would guess Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan were coached by their peers up until their death.

Neil deGrasse Tyson, the President, Dalai Lama, and Pope are still available to query the role coaching has in their lives. Since the President is surrounded with a cabinet of his peers it is easy to conclude coaching is important to his position.

Wisdom, intelligence, or sapience is knowing what to do with the advice of a coach.

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