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« The Science of Systems 9 | Main | Are we guilty of over abstraction? »

August 31, 2009

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GaryA

I have no personal experience of them but I can imagine the eventual frustration of seeing the results (or rather lack of them)of all these conferences you must attend George...?
I can imagine how invigerating, interesting and imaginative the potential solutions painstakingly laid out by the speakers (I'd like to have witnessed the Nancy Abrams and Joel Primack one at your latest) can be. But the depression at seeing the world dragged down the ecological plug-hole by corrupt politicos must make them seem like esoteric talking shops.
For years I have hoped to see some sign of emergence of a underground movement of practically minded intellectuals & radicals prepared to have a go at wrestling control of humanity and the ecos from the planetmongering shagwits in control...but I doubt it will ever happen.
Do many others share my frustration at the endless reading, writing, talking, learning, discussiong solutions while all we really want is some action, some real hope, anything...?
Managing to convert a few hundred(if we are lucky) pales into utter insignificance when confronted by the reality of millions merrily and unselfconsciously belting along the highways in their SUV's looking for the consumerist promised land...!

Where art thou, 21st century Alaxander the Great?


GaryA

Apologies for the occ lapses in spelling...I write this stuff in my wage-slave lunch hour....

George Mobus

GaryA,

I don't think Alexander (great or otherwise) is in the wings waiting. There is no point in trying to save the unsustainable social fabric we have created in our general lack of sapience. Neither logic nor subjugation of the populace nor any feasible method exists for solving the world's problems.

It is always evolution. This world will come to an end and give rise to a new world, one that will most likely seem freakish to us, but one in which new evolution will take place. The age of Homo sapiens is coming to an end and the question is, will there be a Homo 'something' that will succeed us. It could go either way. Either a new species of more brutal beasts might emerge -- no joking, I sometimes think we're witnessing the emergence of those beasts in the guise of the right wing nut jobs protesting "killing squads" in the US -- or Homo eusapiens might result from an evolutionary bottleneck. I would certainly vote for the latter. And the only way I could hedge my bets is by finding and grouping the breeding stock in a safe location. The progenitors are almost certainly in the population right now. Providing them a beacon that they would recognize and follow to form an aggregate community where nature can take its course as far as breeding is concerned -- assortative mating -- seems to me to be a prudent exercise. The "few hundred" will be self-recognizing and self-selecting. Then if the worst happens to the sub-sapient and merely sapient populations extant in the world today (and insisting on their wasteful lifestyles), as I suspect it will, we will have provided a genetic pool to squeeze through the bottleneck and let evolution do the rest. Whatever happens in that distant future, it will be evolutionary, not intentional or clever.

In my view.

George

GaryA

I admire your candour George..but will you be promoting this POV in conferences...? Once the media get wind I have a shrewd idea they will be crying elitist or eugenics!
I broadly agree but would like a better idea of the personal qualities of sapient individuals, I personally see a need for practical down-to-earth skills as well as (for the lack of a better word) cerebral skills. I work with enough doctors and professors who have high academic abilities but little interpersonnel or practical finesse...the thought of these types being our 'salvation' fills me with dread.

George Mobus

I am already expressing this POV. I've been in discussions with a number of evolutionists, psychologists, and neurobiologists regarding natural breeding dynamics and assortative mating (no coercion involved so no eugenics implied). BTW: if you haven't already seen Marc Hauser's article in this month's Scientific American, you should take a look -- especially at the last paragraph. You might recognize some similar sentiments. I've been in contact with Marc about it and we are trading ideas.

To be blunt I have absolutely no respect for most of the media and care not a whit how it might be spun. I am not trying to influence the general public, especially on a topic that is as subtle as this. A significant number of Americans don't even believe in evolution let alone understanding genetic sorting by sexual selection! I also have very thick skin. Besides, the s**t will be hitting the fan in such a way that the general public will be desperate for solutions at some point. That is the time to try to influence the sentiments.

AFA: personal qualities of sapient individuals, the only real difference that I could conjure is that they are better able to grasp the broader and longer-term significance of what is happening around them. They don't have to be geniuses, just able to accept reality for what it is and not be in denial because they pre-possess some ideological beliefs. They are better able to get along with one another and are more tolerant of other people's personalities and quirks, as well as their views.

Actually, I would strongly recommend you take a look at the literature on wisdom, especially Sternberg's (et al) work. He and his compatriots do a great job of describing attributes of wise people.

As I have said several times, people, in general, don't need to be smarter or more creative. We are already that in droves. What we need is to be more wise in how we use our cleverness. And academic ability is no gauge of how wise someone might be -- I certainly agree with you on that.

George

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