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« I'll be on Radio New Zealand this after noon | Main | The Fiscal Quicksand »

December 02, 2012

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Brian

I first read your work about two years ago and it interested me deeply because I could not understand why we were acting in such a clearly stupid manner as a civilization. Your work was different in that most of the limits to growth type groups on the internet and in book form focus on if we as a society or community only do X then all will be saved, but deep down inside I know we will never do anything to turn around this boat until it is too late. Recently, I read some of Odum's work and it gave me a sense of peace. What I internalized from his work is that, in an energy surplus something/s will move into use all available energy, in fact the thing that uses the surplus energy has an evolutionary advantage at least a short term. We are just doing that evolutionary mandate, not stupid. Sure we are "clever" and have created amazing information systems to harness new energy sources (farming, fossil fuels) and the concomitant information systems to use the energy. In the long run, once the energy surplus is completely occupied, more cooperative longer lasting systems will overrun the energy pioneers (biological succession). My current working definition of sapience: is the ability to create information systems (including harnessing new forms of energy) and use them in a manner consistent with late stage succession. The older hominids that you cite in your text were living in late stage succession type environments and definitely had adaptive structures to appear more sapient, but sapience may not be evolutionary possible when surplus energy first appears. I imagine hominids one day in a far off future being like trees and nitrogen bacteria or mycorrhizas. Maybe we could fill the role to keep our slowly baking earth going longer.

Oliver

A most excellent essay George yet again, and a million thanks for coalescing "everything" into such a concise piece.

Part of me has been an interested spectator as another part of me has evolved from ignorance of reality to fear for the future (mostly for my kids' sake) to anger followed by depression over the unsapient unceasing greediness of our "rulers", to my present calm acceptance that everything will be what it will be, and all the earlier emotions can be left behind, along with any remnant misplaced anthropocentrism.

For that, I in turn must thank you for your patient setting out of the truth of evolution over these months. Your words have been signposts for me. Understanding does bring peace, and if any of your readers happen to still be stuck in the fear mode, I can only wish them well on their own voyage to solace.

John Wesley Harding

"but sapience may not be evolutionary possible when surplus energy first appears"

Or cleaverness/intelligence beats it, or is more apt to reinforce itself. Would a sapient being be more likely to engage in mass overshoot, as a non-sapient being that was clever enough to harness surplus energy. Probably not.

Nature played a bit of a cruel trick. We became clever, but not sapient enough to know better. But perhaps when the surplus energy is gone in 100 years, if there are any of us left, a new transformation may begin

Brian

John, I completely agree with your assessment. I said "first appears" because if we were able to create some stable high plateau of energy for sometime (unlikely) natural evolution could then work again on our more sapient features. There is some idea that we could create an information system so powerful to rival our evolutionary propensity to use it all, but the energy to create such an information system may only come about when it is already too late to stop ourselves.

I am comforted now because I no longer think nature played any tricks or made a "mistake". I imagine even if there were at one time mostly human sapients (hominids willing to use energy wisely) walking the earth, they were quickly out bred by those willing to break every last hydrogen and carbon chemical bond in trees, soils, peat, or fossil fuels.

John Wesley Harding

The anthropomorphic attribution was mostly figurative; "cruelty" is merely a human construct, and likely a temporary one at that.

I'm not sure natural evolution will ever be able to work on man again, if they survive; there is a reason we rule the food chain. But perhaps some other creature will be more suited to develop sapience over cleverness (maybe one in the murky depths). Perhaps some already have.

Bodhi Chefurka

George, the source of your equanimity reminds me very much of my father's. He spent his working life as a research biochemist and biologist as well as being a classical violinist and a deeply, broadly curious free-thinker. This combination has given him an evolutionary, deep-time perspective on the human situation, into which he has been able to integrate his son's growing awareness of impending collapse with very little sturm or drang.

I have also run into a growing contingent who find as much equanimity by moving towards an Eastern philosophical perspective founded on an awareness of the spiritual/ecological interdependence of everything, with lashings of non-dualism and Buddhist non-attachment. This group has become my tribe.

What I have not found is any significant number of people who have achieved lasting peace of mind while remaining psychologically attached to standard Western anthropocentric cultural concerns, values and arrangements. Interestingly, whether they remain attached in support of, or in opposition to, the mainstream paradigm seems to matter little. Both positions seem to generate a similar level of disturbance in the psyche.

This tells me that freeing oneself psychologically from the current paradigm of civilization is more important than precisely what worldview one adopts in its place.

Ric

George - this is a great, concise summary of the "big picture" while addressing spirituality. I have a question. You wrote:

"When we were still constrained in the same ways as other species the operation of this mandate involved acquisition of surpluses of food and other resources, especially exosomatic energy such as a pile of wood for the fire. We are wired to seek excesses when they are available simply because they were not always available in our primitive environment. We are wired to grab any excesses we can when we can in case we need them to buffer our needs later when the resource is less available. For example, kill the big game and try to preserve the meat for later eating. "

Do you believe that it follows from the above statement that all human societies seek to create surpluses? I have been reading a lot recently about "primitive" foraging and horticultural societies and one point that seems to come up is that many of these societies did and do not attempt to create surpluses of food (or other things like tools and firewood).

Civilizations are human societies that feed themselves via agriculture, and agriculture produces surpluses. It seems that this is at the root of our "unsustainability" since non-surplus producing human societies lived within the biosphere's limits for thousands of years prior to the simultaneous inventions of agriculture.

Permaculturist Toby Hemenway discusses agriculture and surpluses here Is Sustainable Agriculture an Oxymoron. In his article he mentions Jason Godesky's take on this topic.

John Wesley Harding

Ric,

Good link!

My personal opinion is that the very continued existence of foraging and horticultural societies is proof in itself that there is no "hard-wiring". Seeking surplus is a cultural phenomenon, and that culture itself reciprocally evolves from the method of gathering energy. Of course gatherers are pantheistic, as they must understand a system and their integral place, or perish. Of course agriculturalists are theists, as they must solve the cognitive dissonance created by their ecological destruction and dominance of the earth; they need God's to give the earth to them.

People are drawing conclusions about human instinctual drives based on the dominant energy gathering method (agriculture). Agriculture is only dominant because it has allowed it practitioners vast access to energy and the ability to spread outward exponentially. But certainly, if we are all hard-wired to seek surplus, wouldn't all human societies trend progressively toward agriculture (and in fact, they do not).

Agriculture is not a result of a intrinsic drive. Agriculture is just the result of people trying something different (a bad "idea"). In some very damaging ways, it "worked" and people bred, spread and planted more crops. In terms of sustainability and promoting health, it failed miserably.

Aboc Zed

I think agriculture is the natural consequence of lifeform of deliberative capability (gens homo) using the latter to answer the biological imperative to procreate and multiply. In other words it was only a matter of time that agruculture was "invented" as the means to "make life easier". Biology is always primary and culture is secondary. Agriculture did not failed. In fact, nothing failed. Everything is going the way as it should and the bottleneck event is as natural to our lifeform as sexual reproduction. So I would not say agriculture was "an idea that failed".

Ric

Agriculture leads to surpluses. A human society with surpluses (especially of food) becomes a hierarchical society (there is probably some positive feedback here - more surplus creates more hierarchy). Jeff Vail provides an argument why hierarchical societies must grow.

Agriculture "failed" in the sense that, without a high enough level of sapience, it is a maladaptive behavior because it leads to human societies overshooting carrying capacity.

George Mobus

The word "surplus" seems to be a sticking point as several people appear to be interpreting it differently and applying different contextual meaning to it.

As I used the term in this work, it refers to a tendency shared by all animals to accumulate more energy resource when it is available than they strictly need at a given point in time. Animals, though most particularly mammals, will hoard or stuff themselves when the resources are abundant for the very simple reason that the seasons change and resources will not be abundant for other periods of time. This is what I meant by the behavior being hard-wired into our brains. And this is what I meant by a tendency to accumulate a surplus.

Hunter-gatherers who live in moderate climates where resources are continually available do not need to preserve game or vegetable matter since it is not an issue. They do not need to waste energy on the work needed to do the preserving. Many, perhaps most of our contemporary examples of "primitive" H-G peoples live in such conditions, so are not necessarily examples of the range of H-G behaviors. Those who have lived in less favorable (more seasonally variable) climates, however, have developed numerous methods for preserving and storing food stuffs for when those foods are not available. Pacific NW native Americans with their smoking of salmon, and Asian peoples who buried and fermented vegetables are examples of cases where seasonal variability provided impetus to stock up.

This, BTW, includes overeating to store surplus as fat as indigenous peoples in extreme climates have done.

So a natural behavior of acquiring and storing surpluses when available is a biological function. It is simply supplying a buffer against harder times.

In man's case the elimination of the normal sorts of constraints on preserved foods and the ability to have more control over the availability of surpluses through the invention of agriculture is what is at issue. Perhaps we should call these "excess surpluses" so as to distinguish them from ordinary surpluses.

The tendency to take advantage of normal surpluses is built into biology. But remove the normal balancing constraints and what happens? Some mammalian species (like some squirrels) have been known to gather and cache far more nuts and seeds than they will actually eat during winter if there is a particularly large yield in some years. They are simply responding to the stimulus of abundance. Some bears have been known to overeat when getting ready for hibernation when they have access to human garbage sites. It seems to be the stimulus of excess that prompts a response to overindulge. I submit that we humans are doing the same thing. Only now we, through our cleverness, control the production of excess and have blindly (i.e. without wisdom) proceeded to create those excesses and then blindly respond to them as if they were just a nature-produce windfall.

So, while statements made in these comments (and referenced links) are true, they are so in a specific context. There are surpluses and there are SURPLUSES. The key is understanding why the later case exists as well as what the consequences are. The why, in my view, is an extension of naturally evolved biological tendencies (behaviors) where the normal biological constraints have been removed. The consequences include a belief in unlimited growth and capitalism!

George


A

Relevant to the discussion.
http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

Molly

I found your discussion of the role of BELIEF very interesting. I've long seen that this irrational belief in capitalist economic ideology, especially the notion of infinite growth (in our finite system) was a VERY big problem in moving toward any societal change, but the last few years, one of the most discouraging things for me personally is an examination of my own habits of thought. While intellectually I TOTALLY accept the irrationality of the notion of infinite growth, I've had to admit that it is part of my own mindset. I'm trying to change this, but oh my. I'm continually surprised by how far, personally, I STILL have to go. I mean if I live to be 500 years old, I could not wear out all the clothes I own! And I don't own near as much as many do. And the gadgets..... And the way my mind starts thinking that well, tomorrow maybe I'll just go down to a favorite shop and see what they have. Like they will have anything I NEED? I don't think so. Or I'll think, well, I'll just go to the Thrift store, because I'll be buying used stuff that's already been made and sold. Like I NEED that stuff? I don't think so. But on and on that sort of thinking goes! It's amazing how ingrained it has become in my thought processes. Intellectual awareness and understanding is ONE thing, but living in accordance with it.......

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