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« What is Learning? | Main | A Somewhat More Pensive Autumnal Equinox »

September 11, 2015


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One of the most disturbing things about this whole situations has been the response from what would be call "liberal" sections of the society.

It has been far worse than just the burying of heads in the sand you would expect.

So The Guardian for example, otherwise very concerned about the environment, has been deleting pretty much any comment pointing out that this is happening because of overpopulation and environmental degradation and that taking these causes into account, we're not talking about a limited batch of innocent refugees. Complete refusal to face reality.

Andrea Muhrrteyn

Of possible interest:

Ecology of Peace (EoP) New World Order (NWO) Intl Law social contract options for implementing humane depopulation and de-industrialization return to living within ecological carrying capacity limits. An Ecology of Peace international social contract would restrict all the worlds citizens to procreating and consuming below ecological carrying capacity limits; or being eliminated from the planetary genepool.

Re: Guardian Head in Sand: EU-LU: Curia General Crt: RH EoP v Addresseavisen .. Guardian et al.

A copy of this comment is posted in EoP v WiP NWO negotiations: Comments Correspondence [PDF].

paul cassidy

'Yea, but no, but yea, but..', just to quote Vicki Pollard. Some interesting new words and acronyms like 'prestidigitators', but whose going to explain that to Gerry & Martin? As for lumping Hippos and Giraffes in with husbanded livestock - as per the word 'ungulate' - how very fecking dare you! MENA was worth the wait but boy have you expanded her potentialities still who are we to deny the lady her geographic spread? It's true though ME is too mean and myopic, though relevant in and of itself. Methinks the conversation between Islam and Europe is well over due and I welcome the emergence of a Eurasian Union at least including the mixed Shia world extending from Turkey to Iraq, Syrian and Lebanon though likely excluding Iran and Israel too Israel for being too theocratic for Europe's humanist temperament. So yes jam altogether and get on with it. As for MENA's North-African leg surely talk to the Sunnis about that or are they too dammed elitist to share their sand castles in the air?
India, far from being the underdog, may well produce the answer and indeed it already has namely the Krishna Kirtan floor which feeds hundreds at a time from a small collection of pots assuming there are sufficient devotees to tend kitchen. We hear so little about the vegetarian imperative despite livestock accounting for over half of all GhG's and the impossible paradox which deindustrialisation. But yea the three response are essentially technological, ideological or lifestyle (primarily and shift to vegetarianism) and we hear so little of the latter. As for China well the Chinese are likely to take care of themselves once they cop-onto the new game in town which is really about sufficiency.
As for moving to ecologically stable zones I mean this is the baseline greedy-green position which is essentially survivalist. In a world of hunger there will be no surviving anywhere. This is the tragedy of the commons as opportunity as in it is the chance to get over and under ourselves. Our sense of mission both as individual and as a society is misguided in that it needs refocusing from self-service to just service as in discovering that wealth lies in the contribution we make - regardless of whether that is measured monetarily or not. If I have served I have also succeeded. My failures are a map to ingratitude which is to say we need to take care not to serve the wrong people - those prestidigitators you spoke of.


Massive overpopulation - 300% increase in my 70 years - is the primary driver. Climate has always changed and will always change. Humans are part of the current drivers in my view. Technology greatly increased leverage while population grew. We will likely hit the growth wall this century. It won't be nice for our grandchildren. Yes, try to find a resilient place.

George Mobus

@GM and also Steve Kurtz(s),

I certainly agree that overpopulation is the single most cogent (final?) "cause" of all of this plight. Population combined with technology (at least in the developed countries) has spewed huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere in pursuit of a high power lifestyle. I have certainly written a fair amount about these factors over the years. My point here was simply to point out that the talking heads and so-called experts on world affairs are not even bothering to dig into the ground truth of why there is so much unrest and now violence in this region. The "Arab Spring" was interpreted, by these same people, from the get-go as a quest for liberal democracy so that people would be able to pursue their desires for self-determination (presumably leading to gainful employment and food on the table). The perceived block to them achieving this goal was the dictatorial governments that were corrupt and failing to provide the necessaries of life as a good government should (you know, like in the US!) Ergo, get rid of the government or force more democratic input and the problems will be solved.

Except they weren't. The revolt has metastasized and morphed into several different forms in each sub-region and according to local contexts. But they all have one thing in common. The whole region is undergoing (and has been for more than a decade) an accelerating decline in already marginal agricultural conditions. Couple this with a substantial decline in aid, especially to North African states and the effects of already oversized populations and the impact is dramatic.

What bothers me, now that I think about it, is that with the kind of "politics is to blame" thinking going on, everyone will spend effort and money looking for a political (or military) solution with the thought that once that is provided things will return to "normal." But of course, with the real cause being the continuing degradation in life-support in the region, the problem will only get worse until the last refugee has exited leaving whoever can't get out to die in place. But by that time, consider what is probably happening in Europe and the US!

@Andrea Muhrrteyn,

Thank you for the links. I can't say I understand the context entirely but other readers might find them useful.

@paul cassidy,

I shall take your quirky, if not snarky, criticisms under consideration, once I figure out what you are saying!

@Steve Kurtz,

Just turned 70 last month. Time to get to work.


Paul Chefurka

The world is facing a witches' brew of climate change, overpopulation, resource depletion, financial instability and political intransigence. It has already poisoned MENA. Look for the toxicity to spread as these streams coalesce in more countries and regions.

Regarding "hunkering down", my strategy is to face whatever comes exactly where I am, in the community I already belong to, for better or worse, sapient or not. Since we have no way of knowing which of several relatively safe-seeming places will suffer the least from the random vicissitudes of Mother Nature, if the spot you're in seems relatively OK, just stay there and live. In general, community will be more important than location no matter what happens.

Fred Magyar

Great post George! I couldn't agree more. I'm currently down in São Paulo with front row seats to the 'Political' crisis here.
Nobody seems to get it here either... The conversation is all about political corruption and how it needs to end.
No one seems to grasp how resource depletion, peak fossil fuels, water shortage due to climate change induced drought are affecting this city of 20 million inhabitants. Everyone thinks a new political order will solve things and allow the economy to get back on a path to infinite growth.

As the Chinese curse says: "May you live in interesting times", well our current times are about as interesting as they get. Good Luck to all!

Fred Magyar

Etyere Petyere

Population drives everything . Population will grow since it is rather instincts driven than intellect Given adequate resources i.e. Food and shelter . This food is was produced by the energy fossil fuels and innovation produced until now . Add some sanitary improvements and a little medical and you also greatly enhance newborn survival odds. That will drive population Numbers exponentially up in linear fashion alongside available resource base . This will go on until surplus energy decline diminishes food availability . Or due to excessive pollution caused by fossil fuels food production diminishes due to fossil fuel pollution caused climate change . Than crash .. also war is an option since it is hard to imagine whole countries laying down and die .. ok maybe India . Yes it has started in little ways already this is just a preview of things to come .. Its all good balance will be restored even if it means humans will have to go extinct . No biggie . In geological or cosmic terms Humans 2 million years is a very short time . In another 10 million years there must be some other sentient folk running around figuring out shit .. That's going to be their time under the sun .. This one is still ours Enjoy yours now here while it lasts

Ed Pell

Problem human overpopulation. Solution bio-weapons for a 99% population decrease.


@Etyere Petyere:
Thanks for a nicely constructed explanation. I hope U won't mind I'll use ur words while briefing interlocutors into the topic. (as the Eng lng is not my nativ)


Americans are intensely stupid. They won't believe in climate change refugees until it happens to them.

I have spent years and years blogging on this topic, to no avail. So far, I've reached 300,000 readers, but the level of activity (actual response) is very, very low (less then 0.001%).

I'd have been better of shoveling xtian propaganda ("Blood Moon", Shemitah), in order to get a response, which I refuse to do.

Due to extreme levels of propaganda and programming, the United States will simply not respond effectively, on any level, to the climate crisis. This is incredibly obvious now.

Public pressure is nearly absent. Public awareness is still being ridiculed. Morons and idiots are all looking in the wrong direction at the wrong things.

It's always been about climate and resources, but the media refuses honest reporting.

That's not going to change, not even when there are a billion refugees.

I give it no more then two years before we hit that figure.


hi mentioned this blog in this online of the oldest newspapers worldwide

Martin Gisser

In Syria you can indeed lay most of the blame on the Assad regime. The super drought pushed agriculture over the cliff, but they were racing in that direction anyway: E.g. 1) They have been warned since decades of the ruin perpetrated by overgrazing. But Assad gave the steppe to his buddies. 2) Similar nepotism in water management. 1)+2)+...= Active agricultural suicide! And global warming just made sure they succeed.
3) Similar criminal neglect, the Syrian population bomb: They have been warned since the 80ies. Yet the poorest multiplied fastest (those farmers pushed over the cliff, migrating into exploding cities, with no help by Assad, which started the whole bloody mess of today).

George Mobus


My apologies for the slowness of responses to wonderful comments. The more I retire the busier I seem to get. Many conferences are now focusing on the "Anthropocene" so I have been very busy working on workshops and presentations.

That said I will try to address some of your comments.

@Paul C.

You continue to have a clear perspective I value. May I humbly suggest that you do have some potential for identifying "more" stable areas and also that you represent a "more" sapient mind so please consider a "more" active attention to where and with whom to settle. My sense is you will contribute to the future generation!

@Fred M.

Basically the same comment. Find a community and be one of the contributors to the next generation!

@Etyere Petyere,

Be a contributor to that next generation. Hunker down.

@Ed Pell,

I believe nature will take care of the overpopulation problem. Get ye to a safe harbor and contribute to the future of humanity.


Same comment.


So learn from your experience and find refuge and like-minded people. Those who actually recognize the situation are needed to guide the survivors through the bottleneck. The rest will take care of itself.


Don't rant. Act.

@Martin G.,

Forces are in motion. The time for analysis is largely over (except to understand for ourselves what is happening and why). The time to take action is at hand.


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